Philosophical Question on Scouting Value

Philosophical Question on Scouting Value

Postby ZorbaGarp » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:56 pm

Ok, here is an issue with the game that I have that others I believe have found a way to overcome. Scouting rules the day. As I understand it, my ratings for teams, including my own, and recruits is only as good as my scouts. Doesn't this throw any strategy out the window if I can only base it on what may be fiction? How can I game plan if I don't know reality? How can I recruit if I don't know reality? I understand this may seem to inject a bit of realism into the game, but this slight benefit seems outweighed by the fact that it causes the game to be run mostly on luck. My best player may not get any time because my scouts rate him poorly. How, then, can I strategize the best way to use him? I'd prefer a game that gives me real ratings and makes me make trade offs between various factors - defense vs offense, inside vs outside, strength vs speed, etc.

Am I alone on an island in my frustration??
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Re: Philosophical Question on Scouting Value

Postby Wayne23 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:46 pm

First, your head coach's ratings, particularly his Reputation rating has WAY, WAY more influence than do the ratings of assistants. Second, the aim is to add realism in that you kind of get what you pay for. If you have great coaches you'll get the most accurate scouting and recruiting info. As you move down the line it will be less accurate. BUT, it's not random, and it's not luck. Your ratings will have a certain degree of accuracy no matter how poor the head coach and assistants.

Several of the veterans here play two exhibition games in early November, before the season starts, and we use the stats from those games to help us to formulate our depth charts. I apportion minutes as near to evenly as I can in those two games, esp. with a low rated team and low Reputation coaches. I am often surprised by at least one player in the exhibition games, but if I didn't give everyone significant minutes i might never know! Given that most, if not all Div. I hoops teams play 2 exhibition games, it seems perfectly legitimate. Then we adjust the lineup based upon performance once the "real" games begin.
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Re: Philosophical Question on Scouting Value

Postby PointGuard » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:45 pm

Even real life coaches never truly know "reality" (or certainty). There is always some degree of incorrect evaluation of talent and also players who have significant ups and downs which makes it difficult to know exactly who to play for how much time and in what situations. I think it's good that the game includes a degree of this "fog of war" rather than having players perform exactly as expected and coaches knowing precisely who to play or recruit.

And within the game it's not like coaches (head and assistant) get everything wrong. For the most part they provide relatively good evaluations, but yes, some coaches are better and more accurate in their evaluations than others (as is the case in real life).
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Re: Philosophical Question on Scouting Value

Postby CoachC » Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:40 pm

one additional thing you should be aware of is that your Scouting assistant only affects the scouting of other D! players. Recruit scouting however is in the realm of the Recruiting assistant. In either case, as Wayne and PG mentioned your head coach's ratings have a big influence. Never underestimate the value of the assistant coaches, however. With a good enough scouting assistant, e.g., you will get more info in the scouting reports. Since most player coaches put a low emphasis on scouting...a big time scouting assistant can make a difference. I know that Wayne has usually disagreed with me on this point, but I'm always in favor of getting the best assistants I can afford.
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Re: Philosophical Question on Scouting Value

Postby Wayne23 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:17 am

I agree about getting the best assistants I can afford. We disagree about how to go about determining how much we can afford.
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Re: Philosophical Question on Scouting Value

Postby ZorbaGarp » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:40 pm

Sorry to be away so long and thank you for the replies. It just seems that with scouting and ratings being maybe right or maybe wrong, then the whole game is based on luck with no strategy applying. If I create a strategy based on bad scouting it's the same as knowing nothing at all. I play inside because I think my team is good there and the other team is weak that means nothing if my knowledge is wrong. It's a pure guessing game, like rolling dice. That's not what I'm looking for in a strategy game. Hope this makes sense.
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Re: Philosophical Question on Scouting Value

Postby PointGuard » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:05 am

ZorbaGarp wrote:Sorry to be away so long and thank you for the replies. It just seems that with scouting and ratings being maybe right or maybe wrong, then the whole game is based on luck with no strategy applying. If I create a strategy based on bad scouting it's the same as knowing nothing at all. I play inside because I think my team is good there and the other team is weak that means nothing if my knowledge is wrong. It's a pure guessing game, like rolling dice. That's not what I'm looking for in a strategy game. Hope this makes sense.


I don't agree at all. Yes, there is some unknown and some "error" built in...but that's closer to real life that knowing EXACTLY how a player will perform and how he will produce and EXACTLY which strategy to employ in every situation against every foe. And overall the "error" isn't so much to throw off all strategy that you may employ. The defenses and offenses you employ, how fast you have your guys play, how you weigh playing inside/outside, etc, etc. all make a difference on the outcome of the game and your level of success. But like real life coaches, sometimes what you do works just the way you wanted, but other times it doesn't and players sometimes play well and other times don't. So it's not all based on "luck" and "rolling dice", but yeah there is a certain amount of variability that occurs. In other words, like real life, there is a certain amount of the "fog of war" that creates some uncertainty and a little of the unexpected that helps keep the game interesting and exciting.

Maybe this game if for you, maybe it isn't...I'm not here to sell you the game, I just play the hell out of it...but I think if you give it a try, the chances of you liking it are much higher than your not liking it.
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Re: Philosophical Question on Scouting Value

Postby ZorbaGarp » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:09 pm

Appreciate your perspective, PointGuard. I have played a lot and have had some fun with it. Just need to come to grips with my scouting issue! How do you handle late game clock management, a game weakness that lessens my enjoyment?
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Re: Philosophical Question on Scouting Value

Postby PointGuard » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:15 pm

ZorbaGarp wrote:Appreciate your perspective, PointGuard. I have played a lot and have had some fun with it. Just need to come to grips with my scouting issue! How do you handle late game clock management, a game weakness that lessens my enjoyment?


Yeah, its difficult to micromanage as much as a real-life coach does. I just do the most I can with the tools that are available...using time outs and setting up offensive plays, fouling if necessary, doing a 2 for 1 or last shot option, speeding up or slowing down my offensive pace, increasing press frequency, increasing offensive freedom, increasing offensive focus toward more outside shooting, increasing degree of crashing for rebounds, increasing defensive intensity, put in as many good outside shooters as I can if I need a 3 point shot, etc. Sometimes I slow the speed of the action WAAYYYY down, so I can try to foul the player who is the poorest foul shooter (when the ball is passed to him I immediately click on FUNCTIONS and check Intentional Foul.,,voila!--he's fouled). And Gary is trying some things to tweak as well, so we'll see how that helps.
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Re: Philosophical Question on Scouting Value

Postby Orsalak » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:35 pm

PointGuard wrote:Yeah, its difficult to micromanage as much as a real-life coach does. I just do the most I can with the tools that are available...using time outs and setting up offensive plays, fouling if necessary, doing a 2 for 1 or last shot option, speeding up or slowing down my offensive pace, increasing press frequency, increasing offensive freedom, increasing offensive focus toward more outside shooting, increasing degree of crashing for rebounds, increasing defensive intensity, put in as many good outside shooters as I can if I need a 3 point shot, etc. Sometimes I slow the speed of the action WAAYYYY down, so I can try to foul the player who is the poorest foul shooter (when the ball is passed to him I immediately click on FUNCTIONS and check Intentional Foul.,,voila!--he's fouled). And Gary is trying some things to tweak as well, so we'll see how that helps.


Doh, I hadn't thought to micromanage fouling before... I do wish there was more you could to strategy-wise in the final minute of the game though. Hopefully there are changes coming to that in the new version? :-)
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